Brazilian Foreign Minister Carlos França spoke with PRIMICIAS about the lines of cooperation and trade with Ecuador. On the agenda are security, trade and environmental issues.
Brazilian Foreign Minister Carlos França in an interview with PRIMICIAS, on October 24, 2022.
The bilateral relationship between Ecuador and Brazil is at an optimal moment. Says Brazilian Foreign Minister Carlos França, who is in Quito on an official visit.
The last cooperation meeting between the two countries took place in the third week of October and an agenda was established until 2025, with five projects in health, agriculture and civil defense.
For the government of Jair Bolsonaro there are other issues in sight: cooperation in security matters, a trade agreement, promoting the environmental protection of the Amazon basin and collaborating in the UN Security Council.
How is bilateral cooperation on security issues?
Security is a concern that brings Brazil and Ecuador closer together, as we are experiencing similar challenges. We have a country in the region that creates great instability for us: Venezuela.
That territory is no longer controlled by the government of Nicolás Maduro and serves as a shelter for leaders of organized crime, international mafias, and activities such as money laundering, illegal logging, and illegal gold trading.
Soon Ecuador will be together with Brazil in the UN Security Council.
That is an important topic, we are going to have a year to work together. There is quite a big expectation and we can contribute a lot to the region.
We can work on issues such as providing support and a solution to the drama that Haiti is experiencing. As a region we cannot close our eyes to what is happening.
And the issue of democracy that must be promoted in Venezuela, Cuba and Nicaragua.
In June, Brazil and Ecuador signed a cooperation agreement against organized crime.
There was an international meeting in Brasilia, where the Ecuadorian Deputy Minister of the Interior was present.
Security in Latin America has to be seen as a joint effort of the continent. Because the threats are common to all.
For example, with Bolivia, Paraguay and Peru we work a lot on the issue of border security. The union of the states is important. With Ecuador we have a fairly wide possibility of cooperation.
What kind of cooperation?
We are talking about technical cooperation, about showing Ecuador what we have done in the four years of President Jair Bolsonaro’s government, which managed to greatly reduce the number of homicides and violent crimes. Even crimes against women.
How did they get it?
We have an equipped police force. There was a very high number of enlistments in the Federal Police and in the Brazilian Highway Police (PRF, for its acronym in Portuguese), which now does a job that it did not do and that is the control and apprehension of drugs.
This has made the borders of Brazil less vulnerable; it allows us to carry out operations on highways, monitor access to cities. With this we have prevented, for example, that drugs enter the cities.
The Federal Police has bought airplanes, helicopters, that is to say, the means to face this situation were strengthened.
Could one of the lines of cooperation with Ecuador be that the provision of equipment, weapons, aircraft, for law enforcement?
Sure, it’s something you can talk about. We have a significant arms industry. And the Brazilian reality is closer to that of Ecuador than that of a European or North American country.
The feeling of a citizen in Rio de Janeiro, Guayaquil or São Paulo is probably the same.
So, Brazil can offer solutions to Ecuador, more emerging and more appropriate to the Ecuadorian reality. For example, we didn’t have any good airplanes for about eight years either.
We have a defense industry that is quite complete and can offer products that can be used in Ecuador, such as helicopters and planes.
How can cooperation be in terms of combating organized crime?
These experiences can be shared, that we are together in this fight is the most important thing.
You are close to Colombia, and you have a process of observing the struggle that is taking place there, I think that could be a point. The cooperation is two-way.
What about the criminal gangs that operate in Brazil and have ties to Ecuador?
Those are intelligence data that I don’t have. I know that Brazilian bands are more in Venezuela.
How does Brazil treat the problem with gangs? That is an experience that Ecuador is beginning to live.
That is a challenge for society, for democracy. A challenge to the rule of law. It is a big concern for Brazil.
And there are discussions in the two government programs of the presidential candidates to create a ministry dedicated to public security issues. But the problem is not solved only with the creation of a ministry.
Brazil is doing a job that other countries should do: operational intelligence, financial intelligence on assets, combating money laundering, the idea is that (the gangs, ndr) cannot make a profit from their illegal activity and that happens through have more transparency and compliance policies.
How is the scenario of the bilateral relationship now that an electoral definition is coming in Brazil?
I cannot say it. But if we compare candidate Jair Bolsonaro’s defense proposal in 2018 with that of 2022, we see someone much more pragmatic, wanting to show Brazil as a more global actor.
Brazil’s relationship with Ecuador is at an optimum level and that will continue in a second term of President Bolsonaro. But the change that the elections can produce leaves doubts.
The government proposal of (Luiz Inácio da Silva) Lula is more enclosed in his ideology, with a defense against totalitarian regimes such as those of Nicaragua, Venezuela, Cuba.
Furthermore, the Senate elections show a more traditional turn in Brazilian politics. Several of President Bolsonaro’s ministers won seats in the Senate. That idea that the Brazilian is liberal is not so true, it seems that Brazil is more conservative than you can imagine.
How does Brazil see the latest changes in the relationship between Colombia, the United States and Venezuela?
President Joe Biden and President Jair Bolsonaro had a conversation in Los Angeles and touched on all the topics. For Brazil, the relationship with the United States is natural, traditional and can be strengthened.
We somehow recognize the American leadership on the continent, in international relations.
I had the opportunity to speak with Gustavo Petro, in his possession, and told him that we can have more cooperation on agrarian issues. Brazil has made a true agricultural and technological revolution, which can be carried over to cooperation issues.
Colombia has a land titling problem, and we have an institute that does extraordinary work in this area. Cooperation in this regard could be stimulated.
It must be understood that Colombia’s relationship with Venezuela is much more complex than Brazil’s with Venezuela. And I see the effort made by the Colombian government to pacify its territory as natural.
But what is happening in Venezuela today cannot be defended: there are political prisoners, there is no freedom of the press, there are elections without the opposition being able to participate on equal terms.
What other issues are on the Brazilian regional agenda?
With Colombia, Ecuador, Brazil and other countries we have a common theme which is the defense of the Amazon. And in the Amazon Cooperation Treaty Organization (OTCA) we can look for local solutions to a problem that is global.
There is no need for us to go to other countries to tell us what to do.
The people of the Amazon have to have the same possibilities as the people of the city and that can be achieved without destroying the forest.
People have to understand that preserved nature is worth more and achieving sustainable development, now that there are many possibilities to achieve it with the carbon market and green energy.
Is there Brazil’s will to have a commercial agreement with Ecuador, is that going to be maintained no matter who wins the elections?
There are things that must be taken into account: the constant national interest in Brazilian State policies, a job in a professional Foreign Ministry, a diplomatic academy and a foreign policy career that keep this wealth of interests active.
We want to improve our commercial relationship with Southeast Asia and it is natural to have a commercial partner at the gates of the Pacific, such as Ecuador, and that we can have an agreement in this regard.
They are negotiations that take time, that are complex, we must attend to the interests and economic times of one and another country, but there is room for negotiation. Although the result is not something that can be achieved overnight.
How to deal with all these issues in a region that has weakened its multilateral forums?
We have bilateral structures capable of working together. And at the regional level is the Organization of American States (OAS). What is needed is political will.
